Post by CampGreyhound on Oct 26, 2010 7:04:26 GMT -5
Hi Everyone,
I thought it was time to repeat the 'Pack Drive' post from last year; we have a lot of new members and even some of you who've been around for a while who have not seen this kind of behavior from your greys. The original post is pasted below this one.
Greyhounds are pack animals, and when they are triggered by something (usually a scream from an animal, but a baby's or child's cry can also trigger it) they will sometimes turn and attack whatever is making the noise. This is instinct, it does not mean your greyhound is vicious, it means they were brought up in a pack. All greys do not have pack drive, and it is a totally different thing from prey drive. The two most loving, sweetest greys I've owned both had high pack drive and neither had prey drive.
The post below outlines what we do in cases of a pack drive incident; it's quite difficult to predict when this kind of thing will happen, but it's more likely with higher numbers of greys in the field, so you will see us limiting the numbers of greys when the group is large by taking turns. So if you hear someone yell " Hold all the brindles" that means all brindle dogs are taking a break, the rest can run. Then we might hold the blacks, and depending on how many dogs are there we may continue along that vein. However a pack drive incident can occur even with smaller numbers of dogs in the field, so keep a sharp eye out, especially if you hear any screams.
Pack drive is the reason this group got started; 2 of my boys were involved in an incident at a leash free, and I determined after that I would never let my greys run unmuzzled with other dogs that were unmuzzled. It wasn't long after that we started meeting at baseball diamonds with Stormy and her sister, and that was the birth of the SSGG!
The conversation we had last year on this topic is copied in part here . You can see the rest by going back in the messages to November 2009, if you need help with that just post or drop me an email.
ALL MEMBERS PRESENT should keep pack drive in mind during runs, especially if it gets a little rowdy. If we all keep an eye out hopefully we can stop any incidents before they escalate.
From November 2009:
Those of you at the run today got a first hand look at pack drive, which is a bit different from prey drive. If you have a low prey drive dog, you might still have a dog with high pack drive, the two are totally separate. In any case, there were no injuries and everything ended up ok, little Tula is back at her Auntie's house and doing just fine.
I am going to propose we try a little bit of a drill next week so that we're a little more prepared and know exactly what to do the next time this happens. We've had a few incidents before but this one was a bit more intense, and I'd like to break them up a little faster next time.
I would suggest designating members in the following ways:
-some should grab the dogs that are going after the screamer and pull them away
-some to help protect and then remove the screamer from the field if the screaming doesn't stop.
Think about which you're most comfortable with this week, clearly we only need maybe 2-3 people on screamer duty so to speak, and the rest can focus on the pack.
Thankfully this doesn't happen often, but when it does, let's nip it in the bud!
Along with time outs and taking turns running (when the group is large), I agree that we need a quick intervention when pack drive takes over. I sure found out today that the big voice thing doesn't work that well once the dogs have reached the breaking point.
Some further ideas to think about...
The persons pulling the dogs away should also claim the space around the screamer & use their whole body to block dogs from returning. The person protecting the screamer should stay behind the person(s) claiming the space.
Once you claim the space, it doesn't take much effort for a couple of people to keep all of the dogs away. The rest of the people should leash dogs (especially the ones who were on the attack) & walk them away from the area to re-direct them.
Yes, the "big voice" is pretty much ignored, and they barely paid any attention to the squawker either, which I had kind of counted on to break things up if it was ever needed. If it's not used early enough, it's clearly useless, and only attracts the dogs that don't have very high pack drive.
Your ideas are sound and a good place to start, I'd say. I don't mind getting into the fray either (well, I guess that's obvious lol), and while I didn't hesitate to do what I needed to do to keep the attackers at bay, I think 2, 3 or even 4 blockers is a good idea to have.
So we have:
-people protecting/moving the screamer
-people pulling off dogs and walking them away
-people blocking any persistent attackers
And how about 1 or 2 designated gate keepers - 1 to open the gate, 1 to watch for dogs heading for the gate. This actually might be a good idea for every run, rotate the responsibility for gate keepers and everyone else can grab dogs and hold them while people enter and exit. Gate keepers would need to stay rather close to the gates at the beginning and towards the end of the run, and keep an eye out for arrivals and departures.
It would also be a good idea for those of us with dogs who have high pack drive to make sure everyone knows it, so we know who's most likely to be involved and possibly can grab them early on when a screamer starts up. From my pack, Bailey, Romi and surprisingly Millie are the most persistent.
I thought it was time to repeat the 'Pack Drive' post from last year; we have a lot of new members and even some of you who've been around for a while who have not seen this kind of behavior from your greys. The original post is pasted below this one.
Greyhounds are pack animals, and when they are triggered by something (usually a scream from an animal, but a baby's or child's cry can also trigger it) they will sometimes turn and attack whatever is making the noise. This is instinct, it does not mean your greyhound is vicious, it means they were brought up in a pack. All greys do not have pack drive, and it is a totally different thing from prey drive. The two most loving, sweetest greys I've owned both had high pack drive and neither had prey drive.
The post below outlines what we do in cases of a pack drive incident; it's quite difficult to predict when this kind of thing will happen, but it's more likely with higher numbers of greys in the field, so you will see us limiting the numbers of greys when the group is large by taking turns. So if you hear someone yell " Hold all the brindles" that means all brindle dogs are taking a break, the rest can run. Then we might hold the blacks, and depending on how many dogs are there we may continue along that vein. However a pack drive incident can occur even with smaller numbers of dogs in the field, so keep a sharp eye out, especially if you hear any screams.
Pack drive is the reason this group got started; 2 of my boys were involved in an incident at a leash free, and I determined after that I would never let my greys run unmuzzled with other dogs that were unmuzzled. It wasn't long after that we started meeting at baseball diamonds with Stormy and her sister, and that was the birth of the SSGG!
The conversation we had last year on this topic is copied in part here . You can see the rest by going back in the messages to November 2009, if you need help with that just post or drop me an email.
ALL MEMBERS PRESENT should keep pack drive in mind during runs, especially if it gets a little rowdy. If we all keep an eye out hopefully we can stop any incidents before they escalate.
From November 2009:
Those of you at the run today got a first hand look at pack drive, which is a bit different from prey drive. If you have a low prey drive dog, you might still have a dog with high pack drive, the two are totally separate. In any case, there were no injuries and everything ended up ok, little Tula is back at her Auntie's house and doing just fine.
I am going to propose we try a little bit of a drill next week so that we're a little more prepared and know exactly what to do the next time this happens. We've had a few incidents before but this one was a bit more intense, and I'd like to break them up a little faster next time.
I would suggest designating members in the following ways:
-some should grab the dogs that are going after the screamer and pull them away
-some to help protect and then remove the screamer from the field if the screaming doesn't stop.
Think about which you're most comfortable with this week, clearly we only need maybe 2-3 people on screamer duty so to speak, and the rest can focus on the pack.
Thankfully this doesn't happen often, but when it does, let's nip it in the bud!
Along with time outs and taking turns running (when the group is large), I agree that we need a quick intervention when pack drive takes over. I sure found out today that the big voice thing doesn't work that well once the dogs have reached the breaking point.
Some further ideas to think about...
The persons pulling the dogs away should also claim the space around the screamer & use their whole body to block dogs from returning. The person protecting the screamer should stay behind the person(s) claiming the space.
Once you claim the space, it doesn't take much effort for a couple of people to keep all of the dogs away. The rest of the people should leash dogs (especially the ones who were on the attack) & walk them away from the area to re-direct them.
Yes, the "big voice" is pretty much ignored, and they barely paid any attention to the squawker either, which I had kind of counted on to break things up if it was ever needed. If it's not used early enough, it's clearly useless, and only attracts the dogs that don't have very high pack drive.
Your ideas are sound and a good place to start, I'd say. I don't mind getting into the fray either (well, I guess that's obvious lol), and while I didn't hesitate to do what I needed to do to keep the attackers at bay, I think 2, 3 or even 4 blockers is a good idea to have.
So we have:
-people protecting/moving the screamer
-people pulling off dogs and walking them away
-people blocking any persistent attackers
And how about 1 or 2 designated gate keepers - 1 to open the gate, 1 to watch for dogs heading for the gate. This actually might be a good idea for every run, rotate the responsibility for gate keepers and everyone else can grab dogs and hold them while people enter and exit. Gate keepers would need to stay rather close to the gates at the beginning and towards the end of the run, and keep an eye out for arrivals and departures.
It would also be a good idea for those of us with dogs who have high pack drive to make sure everyone knows it, so we know who's most likely to be involved and possibly can grab them early on when a screamer starts up. From my pack, Bailey, Romi and surprisingly Millie are the most persistent.